Getting a Healthcare Overview - How the Brits do it, how we do it and how the Chinese do it
By Gordonskene Monday Oct 12, 2009 6:00pm
(As always, China looks at things a teensy bit differently than we do)
I've been working on getting a world overview of the Healthcare situation. Earlier this week I ran a debate over Health Care in Australia, hearing about issues we only hear rumors about. I kept wondering if in fact, the U.S. was the only country in the civilized (or even semi-civilized) world that didn't have some form of National Health, even as an option to private insurance. Hard to believe, but it's true - we are completely backwards in our relationships to health and healthcare.
Thanks to the BBC, I was able to locate a documentary done in 2008 which asked that very question - and did some exploring in Britain, the U.S. and China and came back with some interesting and very informative answers.
John McDonough (Director: Health Care For All): “All of the incentives, right now in our system reward Health Care providers for the volume of services they provide. So you get more money by doing more and more and more at a higher technological level. And we know the real secret comes from doing the lower complexity level of care much better than what’s being now. So all the rewards come from more procedures. And the more talking you do, the more time you waste and the less money you make. The incentives are completely upside down”.
The one thing I have noticed that's most disturbing about the current Health Care debate is the total lack of knowledge of what the issues and what the alternatives are. Clearly, ignorance is far from bliss and finding out how the vast majority of people on this planet handle things like doctor visits and emergencies is absolutely imperative if we're going to make crucial choices. Having ignorant people dangle the fear card in front of you doesn't do you or anyone else any good. Useful, factual information and knowledge of something your life and peace of mind depends on may save your ass in the long run.
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A valuable series of pieces by L Randall Wray
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
By BETSY MCKAY
The medical costs of treating obesity-related diseases may have soared as high as $147 billion in 2008, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Monday, as its new director set a fresh tone in favor of more aggressively attacking obesity.
The cost of treating obesity doubled over a decade, signaling the rising prevalence of excess weight and the toll it is taking on the health-care system. The medical costs of obesity were estimated to be $74 billion in 1998, according to a study by federal government researchers and RTI International, a nonprofit research institute in Research Triangle Park, N.C.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297...
thanks a well written/good opinion (all three). i have often spoken about people taking some personal responsibility regarding their health care. what's interesting,there are those that speak in defense for living their live(s) as they wish... "individualism", but when i mention obesity/other habits that can cost everyone.... i get glazed eyes.the cost of obesity is a collective issue. the cost is shifted to the paying pool/TAX payers. we all pay.
our current clusterf*ck of healthcare system can be solved by simply losing a few pounds.
Okay, I'm from Oz, been in the US since 2006. I became legally blind from cataracts in 2003, I was 46. I had four options to get it fixed ASAP. Pay cash, and join my opthalmologist's workload queue, 8 weeks, use my private insurance and join the opthalmologist's queue, same eight weeks, get it done for free under Medicare (six month waiting list), or chase around to see if I could get it done quicker, not free.
Sooo, I waited eight weeks, private insurance paid for about 90% of it and then, because I could see again, went onto the six month public health waiting list to get my other eye fixed.
So for about $6000 worth of surgery, I spent about $500, the deductible. HTH
Do they have a special clause for Australians, that us normal American folk are unaware of?
is the name of the Universal Single-Payer healthcare system in Australia.
EVERYBODY is covered under Medicare. Although you can purchase private cover (profit and not-for-profit) for extras, like dental, optical and elective procedures.
Otherwise, as he points out, you may have to wait.
Blame my gringo self centered arse for that one ;-)
http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/
By Edward Wong
Published: Thursday, January 22, 2009
BEIJING — China announced that it intended to spend $123 billion by 2011 to establish universal health care for the country's 1.3 billion people.
The plan was passed Wednesday at a session of the State Council, the Chinese cabinet. Prime Minister Wen Jiabao presided.
Xinhua, the state news agency, said the authorities would "take measures within three years to provide basic medical security to all Chinese in urban and rural areas, improve the quality of medical services and make medical services more accessible and affordable for ordinary people."
Providing universal health care is seen by some economists as a way to stimulate domestic spending during the current economic downturn. The Chinese have a high savings rate, and one of the reasons usually cited is their concern about possible medical expenses.
Bai Zhongen, chairman of the economics department at Tsinghua University's School of Economics and Management in Beijing, said that establishing universal health care with government-financed insurance would increase general consumer spending. He said the school did a survey in 2007 about the effect of rural health insurance on consumer behavior and "found that in government-sponsored health insurance areas, people are spending more."
The government already gives many people a small subsidy to help pay for health care, but more government financing for individual health care would strengthen the economy, Bai said.
Xinhua reported that the plan approved Wednesday would aim to provide some form of medical insurance for 90 percent of the population by 2011. Each person covered by the system would receive an annual subsidy of 120 yuan, or more than $17, starting in 2010. Medicine would also be covered by the insurance, and the government would begin a system of producing and distributing necessary drugs this year.
The plan also aims to improve health centers in rural and remote areas as well as equalize health services between urban and rural areas, Xinhua reported. Furthermore, the government would begin this year to reform the operations of public hospitals.
"Growing public criticism of soaring medical fees, a lack of access to affordable medical services, poor doctor-patient relationship and low medical insurance coverage compelled the government to launch the new round of reforms," Xinhua reported.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/world/asia/...
Geez.
Sometimes it seems that our Congress is a chain-gang digging ditches. With each chant of "USA! USA!" our ditch gets deeper. That chanting doesn't help when we are trying to get out of the ditch.
with these asswipe spammers? Do they think they won't just get flagged and banned? Are they just bots? What's going on with this crap?
[They hit and run. They do this on a large scale and never look to see what happens-Sitemonitor]
... on the Dave Letterman show, we're not going to copy what is being done in other nations, we're going to come up with a "unique American way" to accomplish health reform. So, get your flags and start waving while you're being price gouged. It may be a lousy plan, but it's going to be a red, white, and blue one.
Americans NEVER examine other cultures for solutions.
*WE* solve THEIR problems.
JFK's original Peace Corps proposal allegedly contained bilateral agreements, where enthusiastic young people and experts in various fields would come to the US, as well as such Americans going to other countries to share knowledge and enthusiasm.
As the story goes, the notion that any of "them" had anything to teach us was laughed out of Congress.
Apocryphal tale or not it exemplifies American attitude of exceptionalism, independence and downright arrogance pushed to its extreme.
other countries all fear that we will bring democracy on them, like we did in Iraq.
The US exports democracy, alright. By removing it from other countries.
Ask Chileans, among 20 such countries worldwide.
is a good coffee table book by that name. But the caption here, I don't get.
for the same PUBLIC TAXPAYER-FUNDED HEALTHCARE that THEY get, thanks to us.
Notice that in the debate between the Labour and Liberal parties in Australia, the debate wasn't about WHETHER there ought to be a universal public healthcare system or not, but about ways it might work better.
No politician in the US with any chance of power would ever suggest collecting up all the guns, would they?
Its the same in Aus with health. Howard (the last conservative PM in Aus) made some changes to health and it was very risky. We Aussies like universal health care and you can take it from our cold, dead hands!
All this time wasted by the US Congress, yet not a single representative or Senator (yes, there is a US embassy in Helsinki where they could stay) has bothered to make even a cursory investigation of the Finnish health care system, even though it 1) already has a nationally integrated patient information scheme, 2) is consistently among the best five systems in international comparisons in terms of outcomes 3) allows doctors private practice and private, especially company, insurance schemes 4) provides universal coverage 5) costs about 40% less to run, and 6) has had an unofficial aid program to fix US dwarf spinal problems for decades. If you want to list the failings of US Congress, the glaring lack of curiosity about what already works well elsewhere probably should top the list.
who believe that the best ideas from around the globe ought to compete to win, yet are willing to support lesser ideas on this issue. Wonder why?
The truth is, they will let the ideology of propping up private market interests win over competition and free market ideas any day.
They don't believe in making America great. They believe in making a few Americans happy.
I've experienced both and I can tell you flat out without a qualm that the US lets people die for things that are quickly taken care of here.
No insurance in the US? You HAVE to let it get life threatening before they'll see you and by then it's expensive, painful and well... life threatening!
All that right wing retard talk about how the UK lets people wait for months, sure. If it's not life threatening and the case load is high then you'll wait a bit for something like a hip/knee replacement. But then again, notice those losers don't ever bring up that if you are uninsured/underinsured (or just flat out have a predatory insurance provider) that you will wait until hell freezes over before you realize you aren't going to get that hip replacement. Those kinds of operations in the US are not considered medical emergencies.
Bring that up next time some moron slams the NHS and watch them get confused looking for another lie to tell you.
One thing you never hear... You never hear citizens in countries where they have single payer healthcare clamouring for it to be replaced with private insurance based healthcare. I don't know why politicians (who are for public or single payer) don't point this fact out. Here in the UK we just don't see anything other than single payer as an option. Private/Insurance based healthcare is just so... backwards! We got rid of that in the middle of last century.
I have relatives who wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for the National Health Service. We wouldn't have been able to afford the actual costs of ITU time for my Dad's dad, or ongoing chemotherapy for my uncle, or the charges that insurance companies pin on you.
The lack of single payer Healthcare is something you Americans should be f'in outraged about. As outraged as Rightwingers are about a black man being in their white house and married gays takin' over the military.
They're glad to have politicians come on anytime to slam Universal Single-Payer systems abroad, but how often have you seen them actually send a team to the UK or Australia or New Zealand or Sweden or Norway or France or Germany or Holland or, god forbid, Canada???
They'd have to search long and hard to find someone who'd give up their system, particularly for an entirely for-profit system.
Most of us in the US want a new system. The problem is Congress doesn't care what we want. Big Business controls most of Congress. What we get is smoke and mirrors.
They're killing their people off in significant numbers by polluting their land, air, water and food. Public health is the foundation of a people's health. _Then_ preventative health and only then crisis management.
If they've got something to tell us about access, the U.S. and Europe have a lot to tell them about what maintains a healthy land.
"They're killing their people off in significant numbers by polluting their land, air, water and food."
a) and we're not? I think you'd probably be surprised how polluted our own country is.
b) a good portion of the reason why their country is becoming more polluted is the U.S. demand for cheap goods.
The U.S. needs to take a more holistic approach to its international trade. First off, the U.S. has sold its soul by trading local economic stability and for the sake of bigger profits. Secondly, its sold its soul by overlooking environmental protection and fair wages abroad. We act as if all we value is profits and cheap products, but that, much like for-profit healthcare, will be the death of us.
I feel that the attitude to medicine in China is very different to that of the West.
The West is interested in profits, so a magic bullet cure-all would be the worst thing ever to develop! The ideal disease for Western medical companies is something like diabetes, where someone is kept alive only by continually taking the drugs for the rest of their life.
The Chinese on the otherhand try to cure or prevent, because with a population of 1.3 billion, there are always going to be more patients!
The profit mentality of the West puts the lifestyle of those in charge above the lives of the people.
And that is what we need to change. (Goes for climate change too, but that's a different story...)
the total lack of knowledge
That does sum up the vast majority of the US though, and they are immensely proud of it. I've never experienced a population who put so much effort into being totally willfully ignorant.
Though this is the cost of it, chickens home and roost you may say.
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