Ode to The Sacred Cow - Proposition 13 - 1978
By Gordonskene Friday Jul 03, 2009 6:00pm
(Gann and Jarvis - the boys you can thank your IOU for today)
With California circling the economic drain, it's interesting to consider where this chaos all started. A little populist movement called "Prop 13" that captured the anger of California in 1978 and plunged us into the stone age as the result. It all centered around property taxes, placing a cap of 1% of the property's value as taxable. The anger centered around tax revenues being redistributed to other communities, rather than the community where the tax was being levied, not to mention tax rates increasing for everyone, not just new home buyers. The fear card was played that older home owners would be forced to sell their homes because tax rates would increase to the point of bankruptcy for most, and certainly this became the rallying cry.
The effect was almost instant, with a $5 billion dollar surplus evaporating in a short time with services and education funds slashed to practically nonexistent. Since it has been written into it's constitution, California has slid into depression almost continuously since then.
And Prop 13 has become the infamous "third rail" by which no one dares question - challenges to the laws validity have been struck down by the State Supreme Court and politicians caught even breathing Prop 13 revision have been hounded out of office, or threatened with it. The lobby surrounding the Prop 13 movement has a vice grip on the state legislature. So any thought of revision or modification is ignored.
But on June 9, 1978 the news was pretty much like it is now. Only now we have 31 years of failure to look at.
And we're left scratching our heads.
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I just can't see how tax cuts for the rich could work maybe for the working class but the rich horde there money.
the monies raised from higher taxes could go into education of the lower classes, perhaps to be used, just as an example, for teaching people the difference between 'there' and 'their'?
the difference between 'horde' and 'hoard'?
The American people bartered away their middle class status for a grubby GOP tax cut that wasn't worth more than a few bucks.
Now they pay thousands for services that use to be free. Dispite this, many working stiffs still cannot grasp how the super-rich, and their republican employees, have "played" them like a fiddle.
Pathetic!
Americans deserve it. I hope for much more misery to come.
I saw right after they passed Bush's tax cuts. It had Monty Burns and Homer Simpson. Homer (represnting the middle class) was holding a five dollar bill and saying "Whoo hoo" while Burns (representing the wealthy) was standing in front of a huge pile of money bags, rubbing his hands and saying "Excellent."
It was titled "Bush's Tax Cuts."
This was all about corporations that owned large pieces of land never having their property taxes go up because the property would never be sold. After Prop 13 decimated the State of California I have refused to sign any petition for any future propositions. Personally I feel propositions should be outlawed because the people involved only lie to the voters and get away with it.
Prop 13 protected people who lived in their homes for years and were getting forced to move out by growing high property taxes in what was becoming a "desired" neighborhood, the neighborhood they created. Most of these homeowners were fixed-income seniors being economically removed from their homes. Find another excuse for California's financial problems ...
Prop 13 has failed
have been telling us how stupid we are in California and how we somehow deserve what's happening to us... and all the while they fail to realize or at least acknowledge that the same damned things are happening to them on the national level.
The only reason it's taking them longer to reach the fricking bottom than it did us is that they don't have the super majority requirement in congress for all fiscal matters... yet.
If nothing else people, we can serve as a warning to the rest of you.
So goes the country.
a 2/3 vote =66%
Filibuster = 60%
We'll pass you on the way to the bottom , damn quick.
I live in so.cal. and these guys may have started it, but the greedy dipshit middle class majority of California advanced it to where we are today.
Hell, we got Schwarznickers because Gray Davis introduced a new car tax to help save California's economy and the dumb-ass people lost their mind over it, and that was 6 years ago.
And I remember Arnold talking about all the Girly-Men (his word for the smart people) who wouldn't stand up and save California. Well I watched for 6 years as Gov. Putzy ensured our economy failed. - But we can't blame Arnold, we can only blame our citizens for voted for Mr Potato-Head. I didn't, but I also wanted to keep Gary Davis.
Actually, Davis didn't introduce a "new" car tax. What he did was take a tax that had been reduced some years before, the Vehicle License Fee, and put it back to where it had once been. The effect was to triple the VLF. There was already a recall attempt going on, this action just made those trying to recall him work that much harder.
One of the first things Ah-nuld did was to cut the tax back to the prior lower value. As a side note, now that we're really in such shit here in CA, Ah-nuld has since doubled that VLF. I'm not sure if the doubling has taken effect yet though, or if it is soon.
....I wonder how many Californians are happy about Prop 13 now that the state is on the verge of economical collapse. A bitter lesson to be learned by this is that there is no such thing as a free lunch.
... but the guy on the right of the picture seems to be suffering the worst case of constipation west of the Colorado river....
Whether California or America in general, it has always been about tax cuts or not raising taxes. Americans seem to have a real phobia about taxes yet expect to get the same or better services than in other countries even though those countries have much higher taxes on business and their citizens. As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for.
... has revolved directly or indirectly around taxes.
Prop 13 needs to be repealed.
Good luck with that, though!
was protecting commercial developers from climbing tax rates.
It was sold to the "people" as protecting the elderly, but it was funded by large commercial property interests.
It would be interesting to see how well a challenge to Prop-13 would go over if it left residential property alone and only addressed commercial property and raising the tax rates on those based on actual land value.
For the record, the rents in those commercial properties didn't get capped. So, as the value of the property went up, the landlords were able to jack rents up. Thus they were able to increase the "bottom line" with income without ever having to be worried about increases in taxation based on the increased value of the property. With the increase in the income and the rental value they were able to refinance the properties and further leverage the property to gain cash reserves that allowed these landlords to purchase additional pieces of property, and the rich got richer while the middle class was screwed by the loss of services.
Jarvis and Gann weren't ever "working" for the people. They were representing the interests of large developers. Prop-13 served their interests and has screwed the State and the people of California ever since.
TANSTAAFL.
Sounds like a demo for "trickle down" economics....
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!
Old illusions die hard. This is not your parent's Golden State. The California of the rock era, Hollywood, and just-be-cool, man, hasn't really been here for a very long time. We have the die-hard Norquist let-them-eat-cakers, anti gay christian-fascist-mormonians (as in Prop 8), a draconian prison system (3-Strikes) and a pervasive oppressor/oppressed dialectic.
For readers out of state, you might be amazed at the toxicity of several local radio shows railing unendingly against the POOR as if they were criminals running a scam against the RICH. And the rich always describe themselves as people who worked hard, played by the rules etc. And they are entitled to keep what they have because they don't feed at the common trough like those pikers. And these hosts are the MOST POPULAR ONES.
The 3-way standoff with Schwarzenegger, Repugs and Dems is a variation on the movie gimmick known as the Mexican standoff. Unfortunately, even thought the Dems are numerically superior, they will blink. They will capitulate. They will crawl. Personally, I think it's because they also despise the non-rich.
We are in trouble. And it's not going away.
"For readers out of state, you might be amazed at the toxicity of several local radio shows railing unendingly against the POOR as if they were criminals running a scam against the RICH."
Where I live, on AM especially, but also morning shows on the rock stations on FM, it's wall to wall hatred for gov. workers, the poor, minorities, liberals, gays, etc.etc ad nauseum.
Thanks for the update tho....
That may well be true down in Southern California. Which is why if we just drew a line to the south of SF and called it two states you'd have one very happy, very well educated, very productive state and one state that mixed Hollywood and a 3rd world desert wasteland. Yes, some of the eastern counties in far northern CA are right wing, but nobody actually lives there (ever looked at the election tallies for Alpine county? Less voters than your average office building).
See, I live in Humboldt County, where we may have some gun-hugging rednecks and psychotic anti-government militants, but for the most part we have a pleasant mix of moderate right-wing lower-middle class and raging Socialist liberals. It always annoys me that we get tarred with the same brush as people who live seven hundred miles away in what might as well be another country.
Better yet, draw two lines--one between SF and LA, and one about 100 miles north of SF. See, then you'd have the gay paradise in the middle, the cesspit in the south, and a bunch of happy hippies up here. Also, we would be FILTHY RICH, because the rest of the state gets its water by stealing it from us. Let's see how they like it when they have to actually pay for what they get with something other than a few bucks for highways. We'd also legalize pot before you could say "420."
Go State of Jefferson!
With the changes needed for all the citizens to be equal and respected.
From a Southern California perspective, the most compelling case for splitting the state is the prospect of disassociation from the self-professed champions of tolerance who somehow fail to grasp the irony of generalizing millions of people to their immediate south.
Just by virtue of its sample size, California in general, and Southern California in particular, reflects mainstream American socio-political opinion more than either CA or the rest of the county cares to admit.
I was in the Bay Area three just days ago and heard nothing but yammering wing-nuts on AM radio. But if you lock your car-radio presets to Air America, NPR and KPFA, you might not be aware of this. Particularly if you're baked to the bejeezus.
And we do not steal the most of our water from Northern California. We steal it from the Owens Valley, AZ, CO and NV. Excuse me while I go drain my pool; I have to sit in traffic for three houses to film a porn shoot in the valley.
See? Stereotypes are fun. But they cause nothing but division.
Oyyy. Those bastards.
There is a petition going around Washington State to lower the property taxes. I will not sign petitions. Most of them are against our best interest. But when they say lower taxes everyone want to jump on the bandwagon. They don't realize if no money is coming in you won't be able to pay for anything. Then when they start cutting services the people really start crying.
It would put Washington in the poorhouse.
My wingnut brother-in-law would eat dog shit laced with cyanide if the GOP offered him a $50 tax cut. Across the board of course, so that the billionaires could get their million dollar tax cuts that they soooo desperately need.
Trickle down baby!
Then, when the schools cut programs and charge him hundreds (or thousands) of dollars each year in order for his kids to participate in events that use to be FREE when I was a kid - be bithches like an old woman.
And no matter how many times the repukes pull this scam on him, he still thinks they are his buddies. No shit, he really does.
I told him that he suffers from chronic stupidity.
"I told him that he suffers from chronic stupidity."
It's important in life to point these things out.
I have lived in CA for most of my life and I lived pre-prop13 and post-prop13
People taxed out of their homes - it wasn't fear of losing their homes it was happening all around. Take my mother - she bought her home in 1960 and she would have been taxed out of her home. CA state was awash in money and spending it like there was no end --- well prop-13 put an end to that. I would guess that CA is still hauling it in with the crazy cost of housing. Get this - if you don't want to pay the current property taxes on an over inflated track home, then I suggest you find a less expensive home with property taxes you can afford - like so many people did in the olde days - and be thankful that you can plan to stay there even if the neighbors house just sold for twice what it was worth driving your property taxes beyond your means.
... maybe your mum should have thought twice about moving into her home if she was not able to afford the property taxes on it.
The cost of almost everything else in our society goes up, but for some reason most people vehemently oppose any thought of higher taxes? I think it's because they fear that someone they perceive as undeserving is going to get 'their' money?
Federal, State, and Local governments need to increase revenues now more than ever by raising taxes, and they should start by increasing taxes on gasoline, alcohol, and cigarettes. Society wins regardless of the impact on demand.
Go look up the last tax on alcohol. Then look at the taxes since them placed on tobacco.
There is a damn good reason I buy my cigars from out of the country.
Now, I'm all for sin taxes, but let's try leveling the playing field. When they create taxes for alcohol that match the taxes that they have put on tobacco, then I'll be all for raising the taxes on both products equally. Until them, try taxing something else for a while.
Prop 13 was a budget buster for many years, but not in the last decade. In order to benefit from Prop 13, you had to live in your home in 1978 and continuosly thereafter. The vast majority of those homeowners either moved during the 80's or died in the nineties. Prop 13 is no longer a real factor in CA. CA has a multitude of other dumb moves that have trashed the budget.
The corporations that own the commercial property and have owned them for years in the major cities have been the major beneficiaries of Prop-13. Not homeowners (as you so well pointed out).
Which explains why they funded Prop-13.
to say that I wish I could go back in time and strangle them both before they were able to cause so much irreparable harm to so many? I mean, I'm just wondering. I would never say that I wanted to strangle anyone. Well, not out loud anyway.
They were too spoiled to pay taxes like the rest of us so right now as I post California is turning into some Mad Max hellhole.
Hey, screw ALL you people. Californians PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE! Out of 50 states, CA ranks 28th in property tax per capita. Right in the middle, DESPITE Prop 13. Stop thinking it's some kind of homeowner giveaway. It's NOT.
Property Tax Collections Slightly Below Average
Despite Proposition 13, California ranks in the middle of the pack when the states are ranked on combined state/local property tax collections. Proposition 13 favors people who have owned the same property many years by only permitting re-evaluations at resale. As in most states, local governments in California collect far more in property taxes than the state does. California's localities collected $968.01 per capita in property taxes in fiscal year 2006, the latest year for which the Census Bureau has published state-by-state data. At the state level, California collected $62.59 per capita during FY 2006. That brought its combined state/local property taxes to $1,030.60 per capita, ranked 28th highest nationally.
Federal Tax Burdens and Expenditures: California is a Donor State
California taxpayers receive less federal funding per dollar of federal taxes paid than the average state. In 2005, California taxpayers received only 78 cents in federal expenditures for every dollar in federal taxes. In 1995, by contrast, California taxpayers were receiving 94 cents in federal expenditures for each tax dollar.
Californians owe it to themselves to operate their government based on a fiscally responsible model. What that means is that you raise taxes to support the level of services that the voters want. This isn't exactly rocket science. Your legislators need to stop pandering to the public with their fraudulent voodoo of something for nothing and do the right thing for once.
Wanna fix our deficit? Tell Feinstein, Boxer and Aahnold to get our freking money back from the feds. We pay $40 billion more to the feds than we get back. Idaho gets back $2 billion more than they pay. WTF? They somehow need it more than us?
Georgia gets more than they pay. WTF?
Prop 13 is not the problem. We pay among the highest state income taxes in the nation, so we're paying from income, not from the dirt we live on. And yet we still pay about average property taxes compared to the rest of the nation.
...that you can get something for nothing. We have a name for those who don''t outgrow that belief: thieves.
Prop 13 ought to be sufficient proof that the GOP mantra of "no new taxes" is a fraud and a hoax. There is no such thing as something for nothing. If you were trying to run a business based on the same economic model as Prop 13 you would be in Chapter 7, pretty close to where CA is now.
And just is bad are the spineless enablers of this nonsense that call themselves our elected officials. They don't have the political courage to do what's right and fear public backlash, instead they hope for some miracle that will help them to avoid tough choices. Sorry, tough choices are part of being in political service. If you think these is no downside in political service you are delusional and doing your constituents a major disservice.
Somebody in CA just needs to suck it up and get rid of Prop 13, raise taxes to compensatory levels, and learn a lesson. What are the chances of our current crop of cowards actually doing something right by making the tough choices today instead of deferring the heavy lifting to someone else? Not good, I'll bet.
Sacred Cow
Another thread about sarah palintall?
Oh well, at least Jarvis got a cameo appearance in a very funny movie.
Dear Californians,
I left California when Jarvis-Gann bill passed. I was appalled by the short sightedness of the voters. When I went to college, the fees of admission at UCLA were less than the parking fees for your car. Now take a look. You can't afford a car OR go to UCLA without mortgaging your life for the rest of your life. You got hope, NOPE.
It was the greed of the Real Estate Developers and Mortgage Companies that still exist to this day, 31 years later. The most immediate effect on Home Mortgages was a hike to 23% plus. A recession followed that California has never really recovered from to this day. Sure, there has been spikes in various segments, but never an overall recovery that allowed everyone a chance to share in the land of milk and honey.
You kicked out Gray Davis for telling the truth about the state's economic problems and you got a terminator. Arnold is a smart businessman and California voters kicked him in the teeth for his trouble. Now you want all taxpayers in the U.S. to bail you out.
I say this to you, the taxpayers, pack your bags and head out to Mexico. It will be better place to live than California in another few years.
Thanks. What we really miss most of all is folks like you.
He's right.
About what? Historically infamous facts like UC tuition and real estate greed? Davis was not kicked out for truth telling, the bolstering of the current governor is nonsense, and there is no deafening call for a Federal bailout (despite CA's donor status). What's left? That Mexico will soon be a more pleasant to live?
The only value of these hackneyed criticisms is the prospect of meeting the State’s energy demand by harnessing the self-righteousness.
you are wrong tax cut do not work at all
Don't they make a cute couple...
Was it taken at their gay marriage?
I can't believe it's not butter.
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