Of The Homegrown Kind - The Oklahoma City Bombing - April 19, 1995
(results of the unhinged)
As talk of our fractured society enters the realm of the extreme, I'm reminded of how, after the first few hours of the bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma city on April 19, 1995, no one really wanted to believe this was something homegrown. One of us, a seemingly adjusted functioning human being, bent on destroying lives, most of them children, bent on proving an abstract incomprehensible thought might be responsible.
Gov. Keating (Oklahoma): “I know of no threat and I know of no warning. The size of the explosion indicated, I think, to many of us who have been in this business is that it had to be more that a utility blast, and apparently that’s what occurred and it’s, you know, a terrible, terrible thing that these innocent people could be savaged like this.”
As this compressed recording of the first 3 hours shows, from roughly 9:30 to noon, thoughts were geared towards some terrorist group from another country, much like the ones who tried to blow up the World Trade Center only two years earlier, or the ones earlier that day in Japan who set off poison gas in the subway system, fashioning themselves after the Tokyo subway attacks only a month earlier.
Even an early report linking the bombings to an erroneous phone call linking the Nation of Islam, seemed more credible than the real story that was unfolding. And it wasn't until almost two hours later that it occurred to someone in Oklahoma City that maybe, just maybe this bombing was some form of revenge for Waco - that this day, April 19 was an anniversary. And this, as twisted logic goes, was a good excuse even as the casualties rose on a minute by minute basis.
So I'm reminded how easily the unhinged can operate, how easily they are goaded into acts of extreme violence by manipulators to prove an abstract point even they aren't quite sure of. They are only sure of nameless hate and faceless fear.
And the propagators of hate and hate speech and hate media like that just fine.
whole lot about the militia movement at the time, so OKC was my introduction to it. And what an introduction. I saw the photos of poor little Baby Baylee Almon, and that is what stayed the most with me. So as I was learning at age 13 what the militia movement claimed they believed, I decided they were cruel and cowardly instead.
6 years later, when I was 19, I watched the news coverage of McVeigh's execution, and then I went to the first day of my World Religion class. Needless to say, the atmosphere was kind of heavy. As heavy as it would be 3 months later, on my first back in class after 9/11.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
why blame the militia movement? This scum was not a member of them. I don't belong to any of them myself, but I have known some people that do, and for the most part they are pretty nice people. Actually I take that back, I am a member of two militias, the federal militia and my state militia, as according to the law.
There is no such thing as a federal militia in America.
10 U.S.C. §311:
Corruption favors the wealthy.
The function of the organized militias has been primarily taken over by standing armies and National Guards.
The unorganized militia is potential only, and is subject to the State, not the feds.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
That law is current, ysb. It describes the National, not a state, militia. While the Guards are part of the National militia and primarily under state control, they can be federalized quite easily.
The unorganized militia is under direct federal jurisdiction though it is, admittedly, potential only. I'm unaware of any law that would permit a state to call up the unorganized militia. At first blush, that would seem unconstitutional without federal authorization as Congress has the power to raise and support armies.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Gun fondler. The biggest cowards in the world collect guns and talk all that militia crap. Makes ya feel maybe close to equal with a real man I guess when you're holding a deadly weapon that can take another persons' life with a little pull of the finger.
once he got caught. Before that he was just part of the gang.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Actually, wasn't he a member of the Michigan Militia?
Crossroads Mall when the blast happened. I didn't feel it, but everybody went outside and we could see the smoke rising. Then somebody turned on a tv and there was the horribleness. A friend's wife worked in the Murrah Building, and they attended 45 funerals. His wife could never get over it and committed suicide.
I think they fried McVeigh too soon b/c there was a lot of crying for vengeance. If he'd been put behind bars for eternity, he'd eventually have spilled it all b/c he was a weak, soft person to do such a cowardly thing for some supposed principle. No principle is worth that.
It's amusing. The FBI used to like to pretend that some how "eco terrorists" were the nation's worse domestic terrorist threat, people who released mink from farms, uprooted genetically modified plants, burned logging trucks, sat in front of dozers and sang songs.
Bullshit. Republicanism has been and continues to be the worse terrorist threat that the nation has faced for the past 50 years. Republicanism is a re-emrgence of neo-Nazism, and while "eco terrorists" attack peoperty, Republican terrorist murder people.
The FBI is undeniably the core problem, itself a neo-Nazi fascist organization that has served and protected its own criminal right wing corporate sponsors for decades while pretending that people opposing Republican criminality are some how a threat.
Clinton's crime bill...the "Counter-Terrorism Bill".
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
who are sufficiently unhinged to actually do this sort of thing anyway. For the rational it's just loony tunes.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Thank you Peter.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
With all the local newscasts wondering why all the 12 different surveillance tapes were never released, I also wonder....
Why were they not released?
To Peter G and Annaleigh....why would you question local newscasters who most would consider to be "legitimate" when they wonder why all the tapes are being suppressed? For National Security?
Really?
Why have all the Pentagon videos not been released? Not even to the 9/11 Commission?
I don't know why it is that asking very serious unanswered questions around here seems to raise some individuals hackles so damn much??
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
And why were multiple explosions recorded?
And why were people tipped off?
And who is the unidentified man seen getting out of the truck in the surveilance video? (never released)
Most importantly:
How could it have been a truck bomb parked outside the building that caused that type of destruction?
Who is the man seen getting out of the truck in the video no one has seen? My guess is Elvis. Prove me wrong.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
You are foolish. The evidence speaks for itself. Add it up. The government is not as benign as you think. You think it is beyond them to manipulate the public with false terror events? It's happened throughout history [Deleted.Very rude-Sitemonitor].
There are plenty videos of this day. you just have to SEARCH THEM. Most of them made by MSM Cable news.
By the WAY ELVIS had nothing to with it Unless he can remote control a bomb from the CEMENTERY!
I think you're confusing Elvis with Jimmy Hoffa.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Wed, 03/03/2010 - 20:45 — Peter G
Who is the man seen getting out of the truck in the video no one has seen? My guess is Elvis. Prove me wrong.
_______________________________________________
Waldo.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
is absolutely fundamental to a good conspiracy story and the best thing is it can never be disproved. There may never have been 12 surveillance videos or they may have been damaged or perhaps some showed babies being blown up and actually were held back in deference to those children's parents. Who knows? Doesn't matter. Beause the mere claim they existed is proof that Clinton blew up a federal building and a day care to advance his political agenda. It pains me to admit this but there seem to be just as many whack jobs on the left as the right.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
.... bringing in the satellite feed that night at our station, I can assure you there were no secret coordinates or video that was whisked off to some secret location.
I spent most of my shift staring at the blown-out side of the Murrah Building.
Smotviddy's conspiracy defense is typical: if you can't prove or explain (insert random observation/source), then there must have been a conspiracy.
Sitemonitor - the comment was clearly on topic. Surely you're not going to censor me for asking questions?
What is the problem?
[We don't allow 9/11 conspiracy/info wars type posts on the site. If you post something and it's deleted, don't repost it. You'll be banned-Sitemonitor]
Technically the legal definition of a conspiracy is two or more people plotting to knowingly commit a crime. The actual crime itself is a seperate charge.
Now what people are calling conspiracies now are routinely open-ended, with no conclusions possible, lack of evidence taken for a cover-up, so they're essentially tautologies rife with argumentum ad ignorantiams (or is that argumentum ad ignorantiamæ? But as the leper said, "That's no skin off your nose...")
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
got to wonder if Oklahoma would have happened if Clinton's bunch would have been tried for murder for The Branch Davidian Massacre and Ruby Ridge.
You should carry a gun to protect yourself from the less than virtuous, as well as to keep order on that exciting day when society breaks down and your gun will be the only law.
I often wondered about that case, especially because the leader of the group, who they really wanted for questioning, was often seen out running off the property.
All they had to do was arrest him.
I remember watching that in horror and despising Janet Reno for what she and Clinton did that day.
Un-American activities to the max.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
you could inquire as to the difference between a search warrant, for which they had probable cause, and an arrest warrant for which they did not as yet have enough evidence. That's why they got the search warrant.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
regardless of how long it took.
There were innocent children there.
(BTW....my handle is Abby "B" wood....You're not the only one who seems to skip the "B"...)
My point is that the entire matter, I believe, was handled in a heavy handed manner that was un-American.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
at all. They should have waited. As long as it takes. My point about Koresh however is valid. They had no just cause to pick him up off the street. They did believe they had reason to conduct a raid. Sorry about misspelling your name. Until you pointed it out that b was invisible to me. I guess we sometimes just see what we expect to see.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Both an arrest warrant and a search warrant, according to the US Constitution, require probable cause, at least they used to until Rehnquist, et al. came along.
An arrest warrant is only required when the arrest occurs outside a private place, absent consent from the supposed owner of the private property. Thus, an arrest may be made, based upon probable cause, in a public place without a warrant.
your facts. Both arrest and search warrants require some cause. I did not say otherwise. What I did say is that they had a search warrant because they convinced a judge they had probable cause. They did not have sufficient evidence to convince a judge to issue an arrest warrant for Koresh. Yet.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
make it clear Ruby Ridge happened under the first Bush. And I believe the state tried to prosecute one of the snipers but was blocked by the federal gov.
... gang of thugs are the ones who argued for 'reasonable suspicion' as the standard for wiretaps (as opposed to 'probable cause'). Alberto Gonzales is the one who attested that the Constitution contains no express guarantee of habeas corpus.
So when you're looking for your missing freedoms, it's not the black guy who forced you to buy health insurance who took 'em.
The mess at Ruby Ridge happened in August 1992, so it was Bush 1's mess.
what is done in our name; it is nominally our country.
the usa has overthrown governments in iran and iraq (the 50's) and plenty before that, there was mk-ultra, operation northwoods, and on and on.
the murrah building was the ugliest thing i have seen in my life, the closest thing to a war zone most of us will ever see; but then it was a war zone, the hope was to set off a right wing revolution.
we can but hope that the inchoate rage we are seeing from the right can become better informed, because right now the tea party, christian nationalists, out and out racists, et al, are simply stooges for those pulling their strings.
the aristocracy is playing a very dangerous game, they think they know what they are doing, they are counting on propaganda through tecnology to keep the people under control.
the danger is they may cause a fire that they can't put out.
You mention Iran and Iraq in the 50's. MK-Ultra, Operation Northwoods.
Of course there was the CIA overthrow of the democratically elected leader Allende in Chile.
And on and on.
I wonder how many of these things Peter G denies are true and are just "left-wing conspiracies"??
Peter G? How many of these historically documented events do you still deny in spite of the evidence?
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
on the head there. I like evidence. Nice physical evidence. Like one big hole in the ground. It is interesting how one conflates a proven historical event like Allende's overthrow about which just about everything is known because so many insiders talked and wrote about it and a conspiracy like OC about which no insiders apparently exist.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Northwoods that is detailed in "Body of Secrets" by James Bamford?
Here's a link to the document:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/no...
I've done research for years and years and began reading lots of books in the process.
For me, that is where I've discovered the most verified information.
Funny how I believed The New York Times would tell me everything that was "really" important.
I was very, very wrong.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
with this but I'll take a look.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Bamford's book(s) on the NSA, starting with "The Puzzle Palace."
...and was working in a vet clinic in Edmond, just north of OKC. We felt a significant shock from the blast even up there, and the more we heard on the radio the worse it got. My boss ran home and got a small TV, brought it back to the clinic, and then we got to see what happened. Later I assisted recovery efforts at the site, and I'll never forget what I saw.
Oklahomans began volunteering even before the dust settled. Lines at the Edmond blood bank were already out of the parking lot just an hour after the blast. Even the normally hyper-conservative newspaper in OKC, The Daily Oklahoman, was approving of President Clinton's response to the bombing.
I worry about the rise (again) of the antigovernment militias, and my fear is that the next Murrah-like bombing is not an if but a matter of when.
Andy
The have been used as PATSIES.
When i smell coverup and not to investigate an event, i am very Suspicios.
There were enought evidence more EXPLOSIVES were found. So it was NOT only a Van filled with home made stuff.
This building needed to go (Perhaps Because of some files or some people)
McVeight took to whole Blame.
As now they want to say that KSM was able of demolishing THREE BUILDINGS with TWO Planes. Really?
I don't think Clinton was behind, but some shadow -rogue elements within the CIA and FBI did it.
Who has the power for covering it up like they did?
... the ability to blow shit up in order to eliminate a handful of people or files, why not make them disappear in a less suspicious manner, a car crash or an undiagnosed medical condition?
And any REAL spy knows that you keep a burn file as an insurance policy. Killing me would not guarantee that you will prevent the dissemination of the knowledge I hold/possess - I probably won't be keeping the originals in my home, and there may be one or more blinds running with instructions to do x if I do not do y on a regular basis, or if the circumstances of my death should be unusual in any way.
Aha! Now we know what happened to Obama's Kenyan birth certificate!
we were working on a stretch of highway just a little north of the Oklahoma /Kansas border... we heard a muffled sound and felt a trembling of the ground; as weird as it sounds we thaught it was a small earthquake...even though we had never heard of a Kansas earth quake. Some hours later we got the news of the Murrah Building,and heard that the blast and shock were felt many miles away. It was very creapy and saddening to think about later when we realized what we had experienced...Very sad.
Dont know if the video is full if it,but,in the 'additional' footage,about 12 min. in they show the news clips of the Ok.local news crews,with ATF agents talking about the second or third bomb!Even show the bomb removal rig.Dave somebody says"If you didn't live in OKC that morning,you probably didn't know of this footage...." Food for thought,and grounds for further research" (thanks Dave Emory for that line)
....the fools do not realize,a population that can ,..... not paticipate .............in the 'economy'...,can not keep it viable!..........."we are listening,.......and we're not blind.,......this is your life....this is your time."
they were removing anything they thought might be a bomb. Since it is a time honored trick among the terrorist crowd to set multiple bombs. One for the initial effect and the others delayed to kill the first responders. Food for thought. If you happen to be responding to a terrorist attack.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Right....
There was only one "bomb" - the truck bomb. Other bombs have never been acknowledged. I know the truth is scary for you, but you should at least know the history of the incident before you keep commenting.
you have ever heard of this thing called an "echo". I'm told it can happen when you generate a loud noise and there are surfaces around to reflect the sound. I understand they can even be recorded.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
echos don't show up on seismographs ..
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
they do. That's why seismographs have wavy lines.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
lol
:)
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
Do you realise there are seismographic recordings of multiple explosions?
Consult a geophysicist and see what they have to say. Make sure to discount all the eye witnesses who saw exactly one explosion. Consult the readily available videos that show one, (count 'em one) crater.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Why don't they just release the videos? They weren't damaged, as you suppose. They cite "national security concerns" for not releasing them. And the crater? The crater was made to be bigger and bigger in subsequent news reports just to account for the insane level of destruction this truck bomb is meant to have created.
where are the other craters?
Hasa Diga Eebowai
I don't know if there was more than one bomb (apart from the truck bomb). It doesn't really matter. Look at the building - it was clearly blown from the inside-out, not outside-in.
if someone is claiming there were multiple explosions and I can assure you from personal experience in the mining business that a couple of hundred pounds of amfo going off can spoil your day. Never mind a ton.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Well, as I said, seismographs show multiple explosions. But there doesn't need to be multiple craters if the explosion that came from inside the building engulfed the tiny crater made by the truck bomb.
According to the news reports on the video the other two bombs were defused, so obviously they left no "other craters". They even went so far as to say they'd be able to tell a lot about who was behind the bombing by examining the two undetonated bombs.
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
Whence comes this touching faith in the accuracy of news reports that come from an industry with a news cycle to fill? Seeing as almost everything I see on the news seems a little shaky on the factual side. It is entirely possible that other unexploded bombs were present. To me that means McVeigh was part of a larger conspiracy. He refused until his dying day to say. It seems a little odd to me that a government would set bombs and then send people in to defuse them. To paraphrase Emerson: Inconsistencies are the hobgoblin of little conspiracies.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
That we are living in a democracy and under the rule of law within the Constitution and that, as a country, we should want to know the truth, the WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH...
in all criminal matters, regardless of where it may lead.
All a "conspiracy" is is two or more individuals conspiring to commit a crime. Period.
Serious unanswered questions do not equal "the truth".
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Did this rare bit of video escape the notice of the grand conspiracy, who was able to collect and suppress every other bit of video ...
... or is it the opinion of first-responders who do NOT have complete facts, and are treating the scene as a danger zone?
Please remember, there were plenty of reports as to how a popular sports drink was going to be used to blow up airliners, but then it turned out that it was a gimmicked bottle - the contents and brand were unimportant/irrelevant - and the suspects didn't even have plane tickets.
with full subpoena power.
In the video the grand juror who was harassed because he was asking too many pertinent questions and was then dumped as a grand juror was pretty telling.
I'm like Peter G. I like lots and lots of hard evidence.
But we need a great prosecutor with the power of the attorney general to get to that evidence sometimes.
In the case of 9/11, we had a crime scene that was treated as a routine demolition clean-up area. Not cool.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
salt, mainly because from my observations, many of the proponents of those theories tend to hate the government anyway, and it pains me to say it, but some of them probably have an affinity for the militia movement, at least their extreme anti-government views.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
When you see CIA agents and FBI agents under oath questioning "official" statements regarding a particular event, do you just dismiss them off the cuff because they happen to "disagree" with the "official" narrative?
Do you think the U.S. government has been "innocent" of any overt wrong-doing EVER according to the books you have read that are documented with verifiable footnotes from plausible and respected sources?
I guess what I am asking you is, if you were to be presented with reams of evidence that might shine a negative light on any individual or group within the federal government, would you ALWAYS deny it and throw it all off as merely another "conspiracy"?
When does taking a long hard look at ALL types of evidence enter into your personal quests?
Just curious.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
anything either type of officer might offer as testimony if their ass was on the line. People do make mistakes and then they try to justify them. On the other hand that is no reason to believe something like the conspiracy being offered here for which no real evidence exists.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Not real evidence?
Really?
Are you a troll?
I think it's important to make at least two distinctions here.
Just because there are unanswered questions and glaring inconsistencies in the official story does not mean the govt or any of its agencies was involved in the bombing itself.
The agencies could be withholding information to cover their own ass (how come the ATF knew but didn't warn anybody? cowards, fools, or co-conspirators?) or because to do so really would compromise some source.
And the second distinction is this. Even if "the govt" was somehow involved in the bombing or the coverup, it's not the whole govt that would be involved. It would be a particular agency or even a faction within an agency.
And last, consider this. There could well have been some politically motivated cell that set charges, setup McVeigh, and split. And agencies of the US govt may have chosen not to divulge what they knew to save themselves the embarassment of failing to act.
So I agree there are unanswered questions, as with the JFK and RFK and MLK assassinations, and 9-11. And in all these cases agents within the govt may have been involved. But that's not "the govt."
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
although I think government complicity is almost always the cover your ass variety for failure to prevent a tragedy rather than cause one.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
*
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
Especially with a chaotic and catastrophic event like OKC or 9/11. There's just so much going on all at once that it's impossible to know the entire story.
I just don't trust most people who want to say "the government" is reponsible for OKC, because like I said, many of them want to shift the blame on to the government anyway. I have to also question what's in it for the person putting forth the theory.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
Yes but if you're only going to question motivations rather than look at evidence then you'll never get answers. At some point you have to realise that most people have an agenda, stated or unstated.
... what's yours?
It would seem that you're trying to paint both the government and the media as being corrupt and/or complicit, that the Real Truth is that we are slaves, born into a prison we can neither see nor feel ...
WAKE UP, NEO.
Very well said.
I do believe that all of us here at Crooksandliars, including Gordonskene, want to know the truth and to borrow and "twist" the line Jack Nicholson made so famous, "We CAN handle the truth" where ever it may lead.
I, for one, do have doubts about lots of incidents that have occurred not just here but all throughout the world.
Getting to the bottom of any major catastrophe takes some heavy lifting and TOTAL cooperation from ALL parties in order to secure ALL pertinent evidence.
Otherwise a logical conclusion can never be reached.
This is the reason there are thousands of Architects and Engineers who recently petitioned the Congress for a new investigation into the events of 9/11 particularly related to the WTC's 1,2 and 7. These are serious professionals who have done exhaustive research and all they want are some straight and believable answers to their very serious questions.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/02...
I can't understand how the blast caused such a small crater when the damage to the building that was much farther away was so extensive.
"A basic principle of psychoanalysis is that a powerful even controlling part of each person, the unconscious, insists on knowing the truth, even if the truth is a shocking and costly retrospective."
Just because.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
to every so-called patriot who is prepared to start a new civil war or even looks forward to it I would.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
*
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
in the United States as long as we can have free and fair elections.
Of course that might mean passing legislation forbidding any one corporation like ESS to control all the proprietary software used in our elections where the public does not have access to any paper ballots and where the elections cannot be publicly verified.
We do have quite a bit of a problem there I think.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
going to register with today's wannabee secessionists. Whether or not McVeigh was guilty or innocent of OKC, these people around today still very much worry me.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
And she reminds me of my baby grand-daughter I was visiting today. She's just a little over 4 weeks old and isn't quite ready to smile yet and make that magic human "connection".
I was staring into her eyes today, wondering when she would make that connection with me, studying her beautiful little face, realizing the love I felt pouring from my soul to hers and I thought to myself, "All the innocent babies just like this baby who have been killed by our bombs over the years...especially in the last ten years, even those babies killed because of the sanctions against Saddam in the 90's, they were all just as sweet and precious and loved as this baby."
"Just because" back at you Annaleigh....
They are all precious, aren't they?
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
And congrats on and happy belated birthday to your granddaughter. :)
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
too bad we can't exchange emails....
Thanks for the kind thoughts....
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
as someone old enough to be a grandmother. You have the passion of youth. Congratulations on the granddaughter. Enjoy!
Hasa Diga Eebowai
I was out to dinner the other night with one of my four sons and he ran into a friend of his from work. He introduced me and the guy said, "Wow! I thought maybe you were his sister!"
I said, "I'll take that as a compliment! At least you didn't think I was his DATE!" Ha!!
I think us boomers think/act fairly "young".
I have a funny bumper sticker on my car that gets a lot of laughs: "INSIDE EVERY OLD PERSON IS A YOUNG PERSON WONDERING WHAT HAPPENED."
Now THAT'S funny.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
I'm relieved it isn't just me doing that.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
the commencement speech back at my old high school one day.
I'd love to give them the speech I wish I could have heard!!!
I might have made some different choices along the way!
(Of course if I did give the speech I'm afraid at the end the entire graduating class would either be sitting there speechless or sobbing.)
Heh.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
LOL - my children keep me acting like I'm young. Unfortunately, they are the first to remind me that I'm not.
Especially related to electronics. You should have seen one of my sons the other night trying to teach me how to use the Play Station to watch a Blu Ray disc.
Like I know the something pad from....what?!
We both got a little frustrated. Ha!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
I just got my first piece of mail from AARP
Which I still think sounds like a bit of gastrointestinal trouble.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
and I think exactly like you. There is not one baby on the planet that is not as sweet, precious and deserving of love and care as my baby or his 6 year old big brother. Not a single one.
Man, I'm welling up.
How many nut jobs are coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan and more importantly what kind of damage are they capable of?
With all the anti-government hysteria fulminating from the right, I'm sure we'll have more incidents. We just had our first suicide bomber with the guy who flew his plane into the IRS. I haven't heard or read any more about the other more recent IRS incident. The right wingers certainly seem far more prone to serious acts of violence, which includes murdering their fellow citizens.
It's a simple sociological equation. The more a society becomes insane and unequal, the more the insane respond. If the powers that be think turning the U.S. into a third world country is all honey, I don't see that it has ever worked out that sweet in history. More likely, the U.S. becomes a Venezuela with rampant crime and terrorism. From that perspective, I'm not that interested in what sort of people McVeigh and Stack were. A sick society always breeds more of them, so what has to change to break the cycle?
We all know Timothy McVeigh's was really a liberal
Trying to make conservatives look bad
I mean...
How many conservatives would name their kid Timothy?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I'm not sure what is your point, ysbaddaden, although I understood it to be snark.
When this happened and I heard it on the radio I knew exactly who did it. Back then talk radio consisted of basically Rush Limbaugh and I had been listening to him at work during that time because there weren't any other talkers on the left to listen to. I heard him and his callers going on and on about the evil Clinton government, black helicopters and the jack booted thugs. People like Gordon Liddy was advising his listeners to shoot the police in the head if they knocked at your door so I immediately knew it was some right wing nutcase, as soon as I heard the words "Federal Building". Rush Limbaugh knew it too. This happened right during the very beginning of his show that day and he didn't even bring it up till the next day so he could have time to spin it and that's exactly what he did. He came on the next day and urged the president (A democrat of course, these things don't happen when the right is in power) to just assume it was a certain middle eastern country and bomb the hell out of them. He went on to say even if we hit the wrong country the right country would get the message and stop attacking us. It's beginning to sound like deja vu all over.
If only little Timmy had a plane and flew it into the building then it wouldn't have been an act of terror, the GOP would look at it as a protest.
Strange how the building is still standing after the blast. You'd think it would have pancaked down and destroyed itself at almost freefall speed.
How this story brought out the trolls? You think it wounded them somehow.
March posting. But give 'em time.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Trolls never go away for good. Even when banned they seem to crawl back from under the bridge at redstate.
Although I have noticed that when the RW does something totally and undeniably bad, the t's never show up in those threads, yet pounce if a Dem or anyone perceived on the left stumbles ever so slightly. It's sad and pathetic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTpUVAcvWfU
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Here comes farfy and there it goes off into the trollset.
i recall hearing recordings of local ok city news broadcast that reported there were bombs found within the federal building? i never heard any follow-up.
... there was no conspiracy. You don't plan this event and then have a big honkin' hole with the media calling attention to the One Thing That Shows It Wasn't McVeigh.
There doesn't even have to be a credible source.
For example, let's take Smotviddy. Building blows up. Since he's an expert on what an explosion from within looks like in contrast to an explosion from without, it'd be fair to say his response to an interview would be something like:
"It's clear this wasn't caused by something from outside. There have to be more explosives inside the building."
Even if this is later dismissed, it's now part of the broadcast record. Fast-forward fifteen years. Already we have people who were in school when the events of that day unfolded. (Consider that we had the 20th Anniversary of the Loma Prieta quake ... I was at work, and one of our producers was in the 4th Grade ... but she's the one writing the story.)
What did we see, what do we know, what do we recall?
Does it require a massive conspiracy to make facts seem to vanish, to leave unanswered questions to 'obvious' events and evidence?
No.
who lost loved ones on this fateful day.
Let's hope that the rest of this day remains (relatively) uneventful.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
This militia sympathizer and "Turner Diaries" advocate would have been an angry gun toting racist Teabagger if he were alive today.
He's of more use to them dead than alive.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
This is a...weiiirddd...thread
You want to respond to someone, but you have to check the date, since some go back as far as March 3rd.
I nearly responded to a quote of my own...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It's no accident. We're traveling in time.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5GP5uztjkE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP2TEdOAldQ&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
...get my head around is, how did this building not collapse on its own footprint? Everyone knows that's what always happens to buildings that are attacked by terrorists and buildings that are close to those attacked by terrorists...
Only Allah can suspend the laws of physics.
find the nuttiest of nutbar internet links? And by "keeping an open mind" you mean "believe everything you read at nutbar link central"? And no I won't. The tea parties are thataway---->
Hasa Diga Eebowai
retired general who wasn't there but did read and watch stuff on the internet and even stayed at a Holiday Inn Express? You mean believe undocumented and unsupported media speculation about other bombs, none of which went off? You mean believe that because somebody says a picture was taken years after it was taken I have to believe them? Or believe that all BATF people were out of the building when they weren't? Or wonder about a police officer suffering from PTSD who committed suicide? This is pure undiluted nuttiness.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Interesting reading
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2...
Anyway, the victims and survivors of the bombing are in my thoughts and prayers today, and we are all also in my prayers that today is uneventful, if you know what I mean.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
Home grown roaches one's throat...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It is curious to me as an Australian who is extemely interested in American culture that there is a growing a mythology promoted on the fringes that T McV was a left wing terrorist. I have seen this reference several times on blogs and forums, including the above being stated as an absolute fact by the editor of Drag Racing Online and I would love to know where this belief started. Which news mincer is responsible for this distortion?
whenever someone on the right-wing falls out of favor with the public for doing something horrible, their fellow righties like to throw those people under the bus and rewrite history to try and paint the persona non grata as a liberal.
OKC was so horrible that the RW has to try and distance themselves so as not to look like monsters.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
Until recently you could go to youtube and view several reports from the local stations in OC the day of the attack, clearly stating and "confirming" reports from the fbi, that a second and third bomb had been found and were larger than the one that exploded(although I don't know how they would know that). I have only found audio segments so far: http://www.welfarestate.com/okc/
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